Nancy Grace Transcripts

NANCY GRACE
Search for Caylee Back On
Aired October 20, 2008 – 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 18 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. The search for Caylee is back on. After suddenly pulling out of Orlando with no cooperation from the Anthony family, Texas Equusearch is convinced they can help, heading back to Florida to pick up the search for little Caylee, and this time with back-up. A Sacramento bounty hunter rounds up fellow bounty hunters from across the country to join forces with Equusearch and find little Caylee. Key target, heavily- wooded areas near the Orlando International Airport and near the Anthony home.

This as mom Casey still under protective custody in a private jail cell, sleeping, reading, eating and lounging all day, according to reports. She pleads not guilty to murder one, as the defense team assembles itself, including a death penalty defense attorney, a veteran in the courtroom. Although mom Casey allowed to have photos in her jail cell, not one photo of Caylee on display. Tonight, where is Caylee?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More details emerge in the case of missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. As tot mom Casey Anthony awaits her day in court on charges of murder, manslaughter and aggravated child abuse, investigators say they will continue to search for the remains of little Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony, high-spirited party girl, living the “Sex and the City” lifestyle, with more than one man on the hook at one time, is now one of the loneliest women in central Florida. Accused of murdering her daughter, Caylee, to free herself of maternal encumbrances, she now finds herself not only childless but friendless. She can see out through a glass wall, but then everybody else can see in. this case, not by choice, the girl who posed for photos like this is on display 24/7.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has gone so far downhill, this has become such a mess, we need to end it. It`s very simple. We just need to end it.

CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: I agree with you. I have no clue where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.

CASEY ANTHONY: If I knew, had any sense of where she was, this wouldn`t have happened at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While Casey Anthony still refuses to cooperate with authorities and give them any clues as to her daughter`s whereabouts, Anthony`s lawyers are finalizing the defense team, hoping to keep the tot mom off of death row.

GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New developments in the case of missing 3-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Investigators with the Orange County sheriff`s office say they will continue to search for Caylee Marie, hoping to find clues that could lead to the remains of the young child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to remind everyone that we have not achieved our primary objective in this investigation. We have not recovered little Caylee Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s alone about 20 hours a day in her cell. She eats alone there. Today, it was corn flakes for breakfast, turkey hot dogs and beans for lunch, Salisbury steak, gravy and potatoes for dinner. She does get dessert three times a day, if she wants. She can have photographs on her shelf in her cell, but we are told there are no photographs, not even of Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla has announced his intention to return to Florida to assist Texas Equusearch in their hunt to find little Caylee. As tot mom Casey Anthony`s defense team prepares to go to trial, Anthony remains behind bars on no bond after being indicted for capital murder, aggravated manslaughter, aggravated child abuse and four other charges.

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. Suddenly, Equusearch is coming back to search. Why the about-face?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: I talked to Leonard Padilla over the weekend by phone, and he says he will team up with Equusearch starting November 8. They will have a massive search in the — around an area near the Orlando airport, a heavily wooded area where they couldn`t get to a couple of weeks ago because of storms, water left over by Tropical Storm Fay. They are going to find Caylee Anthony one way or another. Leonard Padilla has reached out to other bail bondsmen, saying, Come to Orlando, we need your help. This is going to be a massive search, at least a thousand people being involved, Nancy.

GRACE: But why the about-face? We just heard right here on our show a couple of days ago from Tim Miller, the head of Texas Equusearch, that he was pulling up stakes because of lack of cooperation from the Anthony family. Now about-face. Why?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think what has happened over the past couple of days is Tim Miller from Equusearch had other fish to fry. He had other cases to go on. He`s already spent $44,000 on this search, and now with the help of Leonard Padilla and his bail bondsmen friends and thousands of people, they are going to find something one way or another. And I think that`s what changed Tim`s mind.

GRACE: Out to Kathi Belich with CNN affiliate WFTV. What can you tell us, Kathi?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, I talked with Mr. Miller actually a few days ago when he said he was coming back here, and he said that he thinks there`s still a lot of interest in finding Caylee. As you just heard, he`s expecting a thousand people. And finances were probably a concern, as well. And now that Leonard Padilla is going to help raise the money for that, I think he`s changed his mind and he`s coming back.

GRACE: I want to find out about this new defense team. What can you tell me, Kathi Belich?

BELICH: Well, Baez`s PR person put out a release today saying they`re still getting that together They`re not making any comments. But there`s a new attorney, a south Florida attorney, who is death-qualified, who visited Casey over the weekend in jail Saturday night. His name is Terence Michael Lenamon, and he has handled a couple of high-profile cases in south Florida. Again, Baez won`t say whether he`s part of the team yet or not.

GRACE: Let`s take a look at who he has represented in the past. Here`s Delhall. That was about the murder of a witness in a case involving a victim. There you see that person. He got the death penalty. Cesar Mena, convicted of murder and attempted second degree murder. Next case. Oh, yes, that was a teenage couple, that he raped the young lady and killed both her and the boyfriend. And here is Braddy. He murdered the mom and left a 5-year-old little girl on Alligator Alley. The little girl, the 5- year-old, was eaten and killed by alligators.

Now, these are the people this guy has represented. Agree, disagree, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: … the baddest of the bad, I`ll tell you that. I was looking over those cases, and they`re just horrendous cases. That`s what happens in south Florida. And he has an interesting case right here, if he decides to take the — take the case, because she has not talked. There`s a problem with credibility. And this thing has had a lot of media play, Nancy.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. But right now, take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony, high-spirited party girl, living the “Sex and the City” lifestyle with more than one man on the hook at one time, is now one of the loneliest women in central Florida. Accused of murdering her daughter Caylee to, free herself of maternal encumbrances, she now finds herself not only childless but friendless. She can see out through a glass wall, but then everybody else can see in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one has privacy in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s alone about 20 hours a day in her cell. She eats alone there. Today, it was corn flakes for breakfast, turkey hot dogs and beans for lunch, Salisbury steak, gravy and potatoes for dinner. She does get dessert three times a day, if she wants. She can have photographs on her shelf in her cell, but we are told there are no photographs, not even of Caylee. No one in her family has asked to visit her over the last week, and she`s made no phone calls. It`s no party here for Casey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, I guess not. To Kathi Belich, joining us from WFTV. Is it true, the reports that she eats, sleeps, reads and lounges all day long?

BELICH: That`s — it is true. That`s about all she does. I understand she has three meals a day. I couldn`t find out whether she eats everything, but she has the option of having dessert three times a day. And she basically spends the day by herself. She has recreation for an hour a day, again alone, whatever she wants to do. Yes, she`s pretty much lounging, reading and sleeping all day long.

GRACE: Now, what can you tell me about the fact that she`s allowed to have photos up, but nothing of little Caylee?

BELICH: Yes, she has a shelf that`s on the wall and a desk in her cell, and she`s allowed to have photos in that cell, on that desk, on that shelf, and she has no photos at all. No photos of Caylee in there.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Angie in Virginia. Hi, Angie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You`re my hero. I love you.

GRACE: Thank you. I certainly do not deserve that. But thank you. What is your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will it make it harder to seek the death penalty against Casey without Caylee`s body, which she very much desires?

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Susan Moss out of New York, Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle, and Christopher Amolsch out of Washington. Susan?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: It will make it more difficult, but I don`t think it will make it impossible. Look, these aren`t the bars that Casey is used to, but she`ll have a long time to get used to them now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kovach says the woman definitely looked like Casey Anthony, wearing the big straw hat, big red sunglasses, and he says she had a shovel and a bag.

PAUL KOVACH, TIPSTER: Trying to get the bag and the shovel into the trunk, she darn near knocked her hat off her head, ran her head into the car and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is going through a nightmare.

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has a missing child.

CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where she is. I`m absolutely petrified.

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: My focus is always on my granddaughter. It always will be.

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: It just seemed like — from our perspective, it seemed like from day one, you guys were building a case against Casey as a murderer, which is not…

CINDY ANTHONY: One thing I know is she loves that child!

CASEY ANTHONY: I just want my daughter back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More details emerge in the case of missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. As tot mom Casey Anthony awaits her day in court on charges of murder, manslaughter and aggravated child abuse, investigators say they will continue to search for the remains of little Caylee. Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla says he will be returning to Orlando to assist for the search of the toddler, last seen by her grandfather on June 16. While Casey Anthony still refuse to say cooperate with authorities and give them any clues as to her daughter`s whereabouts, Anthony`s lawyers are finalizing the defense team, hoping to keep the tot mom off of death row.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Lisa in Indiana. Hi, Lisa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. How are you tonight?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I was — I`m calling — could you tell me, have anyone checked into the items that she — that Casey bought from Target?

GRACE: What do you mean, checked into them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, checked into where she delivered the packages, like, the paper towels and all the other stuff that she bought?

GRACE: And what significance would that be to you, Lisa? What would that mean to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I figured that she used the paper towels to clean up the murder scene.

GRACE: Interesting. What do we know about that, Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO? It`s my understanding that the shopping spree was well after when police believe little Caylee was murdered.

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Yes, that was actually closer to when she was arrested. And one of the things we do know is a lot of times, she would show up at her boyfriend`s house with bags of groceries. We know at least on two or three occasions that she did that. So as far as what happened to each individual thing that we — that she bought, we don`t know about that. But we do know she would a lot of times show up at her boyfriend`s house with groceries.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s go back to the lawyers with Angie in Virginia`s question, Susan Moss out of New York, child advocate, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle Anne Bremner, and Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney out of Washington, D.C. To Anne Bremner. The question was, will it be harder, more difficult to get the death penalty if little Caylee`s remains are never found? Thoughts?

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. She does not want to pick an attorney for the damned (ph), Nancy, and she needs to have somebody that has not only death penalty experience but doesn`t have their own memorial wing on death row. That`s the first thing.

But no body? Weaker case. Everyone says you can prosecute without a body, but none of us can deny that that is a tougher case for the prosecution. And with the search still going — whether it`s rescue mission or recovery, a search is ongoing, and that`s going to be a tough go for the prosecution with a good defense lawyer at the helm.

GRACE: Amolsch?

CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Forget the death penalty, they`re going to have a hard time getting a murder conviction at all. I mean, there is just no evidence that she killed her little girl at all. None. It`s all speculation.

GRACE: OK. Yes, let me see Amolsch. So you don`t believe in cadaver dogs or — I personally trained at Oak ridge Labs in Tennessee, where the body farm is located, and it is the cutting edge of technology. You don`t believe that, either. There was a dead body in that car, so who do you think it was, Christopher?

AMOLSCH: Well, maybe there was a dead body, but it necessarily wasn`t her daughter. And we don`t even know…

GRACE: Oh, OK.

AMOLSCH: … that that`s what the dog alerted on. We know the dog alerted on something.

GRACE: Please put Amolsch back up. I actually want to see him as he suggests…

AMOLSCH: Yes. Absolutely.

GRACE: … there`s another dead person in the trunk.

AMOLSCH: I`m not saying — I`m not saying that there was another dead person in the trunk. All I`m…

GRACE: Well, then, what are you saying?

AMOLSCH: What I`m saying is there is no evidence that Caylee…

GRACE: You can`t…

AMOLSCH: … that Casey…

GRACE: You can`t claim it wasn`t Caylee and it wasn`t another dead person and you believe in science.

AMOLSCH: What I can say — what I can say is that there`s no proof that Casey is the one who did it.

GRACE: OK. So…

AMOLSCH: There`s no proof that Casey is the one that did it.

GRACE: OK. Let me ask you this, OK? You`ve got three choices. It was Caylee`s dead body, it was another person`s dead body, or you do not believe in the science at Oak Ridge, Tennessee, crime lab and cadaver dogs.

AMOLSCH: Those aren`t the only choices.

GRACE: Give me another choice.

AMOLSCH: They have to prove that Casey did it.

GRACE: No, no! No!

AMOLSCH: … not that Caylee`s dead.

GRACE: No, no! No! No!

AMOLSCH: They have to prove that…

GRACE: Amolsch!

AMOLSCH: … Casey did it.

GRACE: Hey! Listen!

AMOLSCH: I understand your question…

GRACE: What`s the other choice?

AMOLSCH: The other question — the question…

GRACE: Buh-buh-buh-buh-buh…

AMOLSCH: … the way that you phrased it…

GRACE: The other choice!

AMOLSCH: That isn`t the only question, though.

GRACE: No, you said there are other choices. What are they?

AMOLSCH: The other choice is that she didn`t do it.

GRACE: No, no! No, no!

AMOLSCH: That doesn`t mean that Caylee`s not dead…

GRACE: No, no~!

AMOLSCH: … and it wasn`t her body in the car…

GRACE: That is an argument, Mr. Amolsch…

AMOLSCH: … but that she didn`t do it.

GRACE: Let`s deal with the facts. The facts are that a cadaver dog hit on the trunk, that the body farm, which is Oak Ridge lab, Tennessee, crime lab, says that there was human — there were human remains. There is a hair in the back that has a death band on it, according to reports. That proves to many scientists that the hair is from a deceased body. Now, either it was Caylee, it was somebody else, or you do not accept the science. You said there`s another choice. What would that choice be?

AMOLSCH: What the other choice would be is that let`s assume that it is Caylee. That doesn`t mean that Casey did it, which is really…

GRACE: I didn`t say that.

AMOLSCH: … the central question here.

GRACE: I didn`t say that.

AMOLSCH: What I said…

GRACE: I asked you…

AMOLSCH: … was the government is going to have…

GRACE: You said there were…

AMOLSCH: … a hard time proving…

GRACE: … other choices, and I`d like to hear what they are.

AMOLSCH: The other choices are Casey didn`t do it.

GRACE: OK…

AMOLSCH: She is on the trial for the murder of her daughter.

GRACE: Mr. Amolsch, thanks a lot.

AMOLSCH: That doesn`t mean her daughter…

GRACE: But just repeating the same incorrect answer isn`t really helping. What about it, Susan Moss?

MOSS: Juries understand and believe in science. Not only do you have the cadaver dogs hits, not only do you have the death band in the hair, not only do you have the decomposing body in the air, but you have a person of interest who has lied from day one. She left without even taking a single piece of clothing of her daughter~!

GRACE: Now, let`s move on to Christopher Amolsch`s next hypothesis, which actually is true. If there — if it was Caylee, the state`s got to prove it, obviously, Anne Bremner.

BREMNER: Yes.

GRACE: Now, since she was last seen with child, what would your scenario be as a defense attorney about how the child was killed?

BREMNER: Well, you know, as a defense attorney in this case, I would try a reasonable doubt case, Nancy. I would not put my client on the stand, and I would simply say the state has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. And Nancy…

GRACE: OK. So that`s your whole strategy.

BREMNER: No, it`s not my whole strategy. I want to say, in my next life, I want to come back as one of your callers and not one of your guests because you are tough, Nancy, but — and we all know that, but…

GRACE: Coming from you, I`ll take that as a compliment. Amolsch…

BREMNER: It is a compliment.

GRACE: … what would your strategy be?

BREMNER: My strategy would…

AMOLSCH: I`m sorry. Is that for me, Nancy?

BREMNER: Oh, I`m sorry. Go ahead.

AMOLSCH: Was that for me? I`m sorry. Was that for me?

BREMNER: It was, I think.

AMOLSCH: I`m sorry. I think she`s exactly right, but the problem is her lawyer has said that we`re going to hear from Casey about what really happened, so I`m not sure she can`t go on the stand at this point.

GRACE: She absolutely cannot go on the stand. She`d be ruined on cross-exam. He should not have committed to that up front…

AMOLSCH: I agree.

GRACE: … but the jury will never know that.

AMOLSCH: I agree.

GRACE: The jury won`t know that he blurted that out, will they, Christopher?

AMOLSCH: Well, they`re going to read the newspapers and watch your show, like everybody else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kovach says he wanted to see if the woman needed help, but his friend would only slow down as the woman walked out of the wooded area wearing a large straw hat, where a bridge of old tires is the only access to railroad tracks, very secluded railroad tracks.

KOVACH: That area right there is where she was coming out of the woods with a shovel.

CINDY ANTHONY: I feel that my daughter from day one has gotten — you know, she has been a victim just as much as Caylee has.

GRACE: OK. Caylee is likely dead. She`s not as much a victim as little Caylee.

Out to bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California, Leonard Padilla, who is rounding up other bounty hunters to come search for little Caylee. Leonard, why the about-face with Equusearch? Why are they coming back? And what prompted you to join them?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, I think there was a lot of weather conditions that were involved. And basically, in discussing this thing with Tim, we`re going to make what we consider to be an optimum search. We`re going to have Nick Savage (ph) from the FBI working with us. We`re going to have the ping masters out of the sheriff`s office working with us. And let me tell you, if everybody that listens to you was to send in $5 to you, Nancy Grace at CNN, for Tim Miller, that would be — that`d put him over the top as far as the finances that he needs because that`s where he`s hurting sometimes, in the financing of this.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey Anthony, high-spirited party girl, living the sex-in-the-city lifestyle, with more than one man on the hook at one time, is now one of the loneliest women in central Florida.

Accused of murdering her daughter, Caylee, to free herself of maternal encumbrances, she now finds herself, not only childless, but friendless. She can see out through a glass wall, but then, everybody else can see in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one has privacy in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Kovach says the woman definitely looked like Casey Anthony, wearing the big straw hat, big red sunglasses, and he says she had a shovel and a bag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to get the bag and the shovel into the trunk. She darn near knocked her hat off her head, ran her head into the car, and everything.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Welcome back. We are taking your calls live. Out to Mandy Albritton, the deputy director of Texas Equusearch, of course, we`re all thrilled that Texas Equusearch is coming back to search for little Caylee, doing an about-face.

If people want to contribute, Mandy, how would they do that?

MANDY ALBRITTON, DEPT. DIRECTOR, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH, SEARCHING FOR MISSING CAYLEE: Well, Nancy, they`re welcome to go to our Web site at www — hello, http://www.txeq.com, and donate there.

GRACE: And tell me, what prompted Tim to decide to come back and resume the search?

ALBRITTON: Well, we never finished our search the first time we were out. There was 30 to 35 percent of our search area under water. That was a big factor in it. Also, Mr. Padilla helping finance the search has helped us continue.

GRACE: So Leonard, how many people do you think you can round up?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPING IN SEARCH FOR CAYLEE: I`m hoping to round up 500 people out of the bail bond industry. So far, at least 20 or 30 without prompting have called and said, “When are you going to be back there?” And I said I`ll be back to 5th or the 6th of November.

And so far, like I said, we`ve had 30 or 40 phone calls. I`m hoping for at least 500 out of the United States, out of the bail bond industry, and bounty hunters, I`m just really hoping that that`s what we`ll get.

GRACE: To Dr. David M. Posey joining us out of L.A., he`s a medical examiner and forensic pathologist with the Glen Oaks Pathology Medical Group.

Dr. Posey, thank you for being with us. What are the dangers to the remains with people searching for them, out in the wilderness?

DR. DAVID M. POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, GLEN OAKS PATHOLOGY MEDICAL GROUP: Well, I think the biggest problem is an unexperienced (sic) investigator could disturb the remains and disturb the scene.

So if they come on something that might be suspicious, you know, note it — if they have a camera, photographing, going — get an authority who used to examining the scene and take them there.

Just — the thing is do no harm by moving nothing, because once you disturb a scene, you can never put the scene back exactly the way it was.

GRACE: And Dr. Posey, at this point, after the heavy, heavy flooding in that area, if the remains had been out in the open, what would you expect to find now?

POSEY: I think with weather conditions here in the last couple of months, I think there could be a great deal of deterioration, especially if she was out in the open.

The water conditions, wet heat, the body was going to decay and decompose much more rapidly. Availability to the animals. So I think the body could be separated in many pieces, scattered over a large area.

GRACE: But to Brian Reich, deputy chief out of the Bergen County Sheriff`s Office, at this point, they`re left with either the volunteers that Equusearch and Leonard Padilla are rounding up or nothing. So, you know, it`s either volunteer manpower, people that are not experts in searching, or nothing.

BRIAN REICH, DEPUTY CHIEF, BERGEN COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Yes, and – – that`s the situation we`re in, but it`s very, very important, like the doctor just said, that the people that are out there searching get some kind of briefing and some training. What to do if you come across something you feel has evidentiary value, that they don`t disturb it, that they also document the chain of custody.

Once they find something that could have some value, it`s very important that they document the exact location, the time, who found it, and then continue with that chain of custody, so that it can be turned over to the authorities and the chain of custody and all of the evidentiary value is maintained.

GRACE: To Bill in Florida, hi, Bill. Oh-oh, hold on. No Bill. Connie — do I have Bill now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I`m here.

GRACE: Hi, Bill, what`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a little quick question. I can`t see her just doing this, you know, out of the blue at her age. I wonder what led up to this being a child, maybe. Well, my comment is, I have children. And I don`t care if they`re 1 or 21, I always think about when I go to a store.

And what day was she shopping into reference of when they think their child was gone? Because I think if there`s anything in that bag — in that basket from her from Wal-Mart or whatever, if approximate there is nothing in there for her child, then it`s over. She knew it was over. She never.

GRACE: Bill, you are so correct.

I`m going to go back to Mark Williams at WNDB. You know, Mark, this weekend, I went shopping. It was all at Toys R Us.

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Yes.

GRACE: You know, the thought of me going to get, what? Clothes? A shoe? For what? When you have children, that`s what you want to — that`s what you want to shop for. There was not one thing in her bag for little Caylee.

WILLIAMS: Yes, we saw the receipt that she got, and it was all for either herself or her boyfriend. And I talked to a lot of people over the past couple of days, Nancy, and they can`t believe that whenever they go shopping, whether it`s a piece of gum, a piece of candy or whatever, they always get something for the child, for their child.

But there was nothing here. And you know, an investigator called her “cold as a cucumber.”

GRACE: And — the caller also mentioned, she didn`t just do this out of the blue. To

Dr. Lisa Boesky, psychologist and author of “When to Worry,” joining us out of San Diego. Dr. Boesky, thank you for being with us. But the reality is, a lot of killers have no record, no criminal history, they — they don`t have an obvious troubled childhood.

Look at Scott Peterson. His parents doted on him.

LISA BOESKY, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF “WHEN TO WORRY”: Well, that`s the thing. There is two types of killers that we see. One are the type that come from horrible, horrific backgrounds, a lot of abuse, sometimes satanic rituals, a lot of abandonment.

That doesn`t appear to be the case here.

The other type we see is we`re not sure if they`re actually born this way, where they actually are colder, more callous, they don`t have the emotional reactions, and they don`t have the empathy that other people have. They can`t relate to other people. They don`t feel other people`s pain. They`re all about themselves.

GRACE: So that — unlike what the caller said, there`s no indication she was ever mistreated as a child.

In fact, Kathi Belich with WFTV, you have this look of her life behind bars, and now we learn the only person that`s put money in her account is her father, 50 bucks, for her to get things out of the vending machines and all.

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: That`s right. They`re still standing by her now and going into a little more about why this happened. We have information that it may have been as simple as a vacation she wanted to go on in Puerto Rico in July.

Back in March her friends were planning this vacation, and she wasn`t able to go, because, apparently, she wasn`t able to find a babysitter. And if you remember, back in March, that`s when she started looking up missing children`s Web sites, you know.

GRACE: You know, Kathi, her life behind bars now, explain to me again why she is still under protective custody.

BELICH: The jail says she sort of has celebrity status and when they have someone like that who`s very high-profile, they don`t want a disruption in the jail. They think it`s for her own safety, as well as the safety of the other inmates. They just don`t want disruption and that`s why.

She`s not getting special treatment. She`s just being kept away from anyone, so there is no disruption.

GRACE: Well, Leonard Padilla, a bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California, first put up her bond, to me, her life behind bars isn`t that much different from her life at home. She lays around all day, eating, reading, sleeping and lounging. She never worked.

I think I`ve got Padilla with me. Leonard Padilla, are you there?

PADILLA: Yes, I`m here, yes. I was just thinking, you know, of the statement that you just made, because when we were there with her at the time, the young lady that was with her basically described her life as just sitting around, not doing anything.

The fact is, the night that — I just remembered. The night that my nephew actually posted the bond for her, she went into the kitchen, and she fixed him dinner.

GRACE: Who — wait. Who went into the kitchen and fixed dinner?

PADILLA: Casey fixed my nephew dinner when he was filling out the paperwork for her bond, the same evening that he bonded her out. And I thought to myself, if it was the first time that somebody hits the street after being in jail for 30 days and you`re accused of killing your child, how can you go in there and fix the bondsman dinner that just got you out of jail?

GRACE: Well, she is icy cold.

PADILLA: It`s impetuous.

GRACE: That`s one thing. And I don`t know if the jury would pick up on that.